so i have invited this person to an elite group lol *not really elite* of realized beings and here is the conversation i got back..
me: so far i've got a few beings from the bg group other: What’s the purpose of the group I wonder? me : i'm not sure what the purpose of the group is..i'm just motivated to gather together with realized beings in a group. the group is visable to the public but closed to joining. at least for now my vision is for it to be like a summit. we all have a seat at the table. we can put out ideas and see how we agree or disagree.. we can interview each other, share our knowlege. have a group body of work.. i'm totally open to others ideas for making it amazing..and if it doesnt work out,,thats ok too anyway, i'm motivated..i hope you can join... i think it will be fun to have you other: What do you mean by “realized.”? me:: there are alot of ways i say it but my best way is you are an Atman, an eternal unchanging essense that is beyond the body/mind complex, and when you realize it there is no universe either...some people call it Self. other: Do you think everyone in the group has this perspective genuinely? me:: at some point each one has made me think..hmm..this ones got it other: well... its a sticky area... and truly Self-Realizing is such an extreme rarity. There's many people who've had insights. But a precious few who've destroyed they false and realized the Real. And anyone who speaks of being "enlightened"... generally isn't. I am not so inclined to hang around such people. me: : i've been what i call self-realized since 1978. before the interent i thought there were very few realized beings there are only 5 of us now so i'm being careful no not let *unrealized beings * in i see that you have a huge following..over 900 people so i guess you have to be careful actually the realization is more like god-realization self-realization from a yogies point of view is not really close to god-realization but lets not be technical right now lol if you decide to not join maybe you can chect in , take a peek and maybe in the future you'll get intersted other: what are you calling self-realized? me: hi..i wrote it up above..did you miss it other: it does not say what "self-realized" is to you... you say you've been "self-realized since..." What does that mean to you? me: having a direct experience( for lack of a better word) of your eternal being that is beyond the body mind complex and beyond creation.. other: beyond? then what of creation? me: its not there..just the SElf is there other: where? there's no tree? me: no tree other: so here is where we do not agree me: intersting other: what would you say to someone who sees green leaves and brown trunk? that you don't see green leave or brown trunk? me: it depends what were were talking about if i was talking to a seeker i might tell him to see who is looking at the tree. if i was talking to a person and we were admiring the trees i would say how lovely green leaves and a brown trunk so, for me what we really are beyond the body/mind complex and the creation is the real Self. of course after having this knowlege you come back and see the trees seems we are not on the same page, so to speak anyway, i thought you are into self-realization and liberation..that why i invited you namaste...my Atman honors your Atman.. what does self-realization mean to you? other: the creation is the real Self? you say we.... what's the relation between us and the real Self? or we/us, and creation? and the real Self? are there two Atmans? me:: there are an infinite number of ATmans other: and they are "yours" and "mine"? who are they? who owns this? me: i am originally talking about having a direct experience of your Self that is beyond the body/mind complex and beyond the universe.. other: There's a body/mind complex? What is it? Many people have insights. But not true Self-Realization. Not final destruction of duality. me: when you have a direct experience of the Self there is no body/mind complex and no universe. other: not true
that is not Self-Realization
me:: that's god-realization
other: Atman is Brahman, and so there is no Atman. That is God-Realization, or the Absolute, which nothing can be said of. To attain one is to attain the other. It is the end of ideas of being beyond as well as of body/mind complexes.
i would say you have more to see, you can see beyond even this idea of no body/minf complex and no universe... this is incomplete... may you go beyond having gone beyond
rather than hang around others, to satisfy your need of finding others like you, may you discover there are no others... not because there are no body-minds, but because all is your very Self.
me: i didnt say that there isnt a
more,,after realizing the Atman..
other: realize what everything is.. don't be satisfied/stuck on the idea there is nothing
me: your jumping to conclusions
other: no, I am saying what you said... there is no tree etc
me: in nirvikalpa samadhi there is no tree other: ahh but that is not the highest me: i didnt say it was other: that's just a temporary experience... you must come down from it does not mean Self-Realization me: what does self-realization mean to you other: Best you look at the trees to find out me: should i find out that the tree is me? other: You say... "what we really are beyond the body/mind complex and the creation is the real Self." This is still separation, and not Self-Realization. You have come so close... don't stop here. I can only point... you must look, then see. If you want to not stop here, question your ideas about you and the body-mind and creation. Don't seek a mere mental answer from me (or anyone!). Go find out for yourself. me : i'm not sure why you wont answer my question..you asked me questions and i answered..i would hope you'd give me the same cordiallity you cant just know brahman without knowing atman..they are eternally linked sure there are no otheres but here i am having a conversation. the tree is me by by other: your feelings around this betray you... rather than take insult (or whatever you are experiencing), I hope you take heart and use this energy to finish the disgruntled one off To give you mental answers would not being cordial--it would be to betray you...and I will not. Go finish this off. Rather than uphold yourself as realized, grab your sense of self and find out what it actually is. me: i see we are not on the same page. there are no feelings of betrayal and i'm not disgruntled...stop making up stories in your head...i guess we wont be j*sharing* with eacagain by by
me: that was the end of the conversation and i blocked that dude! lol anyway, so some of the saints and sages that are on my home page use the term nirvikalpa samadhi differently..
shri atmanada describes it as a temporary state of consciousness..probably *other* has read that description...i go by meher babas description...as follows ( and defiinately During this Samadhi, he has no consciousness of body, energy, mind, universe, but is only conscious of the Self as God. Very, very few, it is said, get this Nirvikalpa Samadhi, and these few only rarely. )
Today I will explain about trance and inner sight — Samadhi. Trance, which the Sufis term "Haal" and Vedantists term "Bhav," is just a momentary ecstasy which, in the true spiritual sense, has no great value. During this state of Haal one feels unconscious of his surroundings and of his own body, but is conscious of an overpowering force of bliss pouring in on his soul. As soon as this Bhav ends, he is just his ordinary self. There are four different types of Samadhi — Yoga Samadhi, Tantrika Samadhi, Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Sahaj Samadhi.
Yoga Samadhi and Tantrika Samadhi have no importance, spiritually. In these Samadhis, one feels at peace with everything and everyone, and finally finds his mind still, but as soon as this Samadhi is over, he is again his ordinary self. Most Yogis, after these Samadhis, feel the strain of illusion even more. It is like taking intoxicants; one feels in harmony with everything for a while, but when the intoxication is over, one gets a headache. So, Yoga Samadhi, Tantrika Samadhi are like getting drunk completely. One feels like an emperor, as if one could do anything; but as soon as it is over, one feels the stress and strain again.
In Nirvikalpa Samadhi, which the Sufis call "Fana" and which means passing away from selfhood to the union with God, the soul identifies itself with God. This Samadhi is the real Samadhi, Fana. Here one becomes God. God's Knowledge is his knowledge, God's Bliss is his bliss, God's Power is his power, God's Beauty is his beauty. During this Samadhi, he has no consciousness of body, energy, mind, universe, but is only conscious of the Self as God. Very, very few, it is said, get this Nirvikalpa Samadhi, and these few only rarely.
It is said: "After cycles and cycles, one gets Fana." This one is then called "Fana-fillah," or one who has been made one with God. Very few such regain normal consciousness; but one who does regain normal consciousness has Sahaj Samadhi. To have Sahaj Samadhi means that spontaneously and simultaneously one is always in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, and yet is also fully conscious of the universe. Such a one, when he speaks, eats, moves about, plays, or does anything, is enjoying Nirvikalpa Samadhi all the time. He is called a "Qutub" which, in Persian, means the Center of everything — the pivot. He is now on every plane of consciousness, one with God, even on the level of an ant, and simultaneously he is functioning in the gross, subtle and mental worlds; yet he is above everything. Sahaj Samadhi means effortless Oneness. It is as simple and automatic as moving the hands or winking the eyelids.
Tomorrow, if you remind Me — I don't promise — I will tell you how, when thinking of Me, you can still do everything you need to do in the world. This is not Sahaj Samadhi but Sahaj Dhyan. Even while eating, drinking, working, while looking at motion pictures, or attending to your business, you will still feel that Baba is with you. This is Sahaj Dhyan.
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