Tung: There is no "extinction of the mind." But it's a good media type attention getter, Tom. The real issue is that of identity, the usual human proclivity to have a conceptual identity for the particular entity they call themselves verses THAT which is the discovery within any genuine ENLIGHTENMENT.
The supposed "extinction" is Seeing that the usual "I" identity is no longer the head cheese in the Reality (more real than the usual reality) Seen within a non-dual Consciousness. This is more of a displacement than an extinction, it's just that such a View can make these distinctions because It is more expansive than the usual subject-object consciousness.
chitra: the mind is just a bundle of thoughts. to clearly see the Self, it could be said that you need to extinguish the mind...tom das has a good intellectual grasp of the teaching as well, i assume, of direct experience...
tung:And I also have the actual "grasp" and Know exactly what I am talking about. The aspect of this process of Knowing, does move toward a kind of extinguishing the over indulgence of thought which has developed the conceptual identity (illusion from one point of view), and a significant barrier to opening the door of the non-dual Consciousness.
But this is not to extinguish the mind (or kill it off), or to try to stop thinking. Or if one does attempt this, the surrender of this impossible task is the point, and "surrender" becomes far closer to the door or the still-point. This actual "still-point" itself is without means of the mind (or method) altogether. Methods toward the "door" approach but do not cause the door to open.
My previous remarks were about what happens after the door opens and the Realization of a Consciousness beyond the subject-object consciousness for which the entity was previously bound. And here thinking, "mind" or subject-object consciousness is perfectly available, as a tool, just like the stomach or the hand is a tool, or even self, but no longer known as the prime identity.
chitra: i dont know what your trying to teach about stopping the thought waves of the mind as being impossible, but your wrong..certainly when the Self is realized there are no thoughts. no mind, not even nothing..
tung: When the "Self" is "realized" IT is inclusive. IT embraces. IT includes. Thoughts are present and welcomed but they do not interfere, as within the less inclusive subject-object consciousness. Yes, there is "mind" and everything within the splendor of the Grasp as part of the Dance. Apparently you do not have this Grasp of the higher order and wallow in some lower order projections (or lower order phases of higher order levels).
chitra: you cant insult me so dont even try...if you havent reached the state where the everything, all of manifestion.. everything in your mind is wiped out and even the appearance of nothing is gone, to be replaced by the Self..then you dont know the Self in its immaculate purity..as light, energy, original face..this is even beyond nirvana...just a moment of this realization is sufficient to completely know the Self..then come back and play with your mind. i've started a page with descriptions of god realization...https://arleeswebsite.wixsite.com/chitra
tung: What in the world are you doing here, Chitra? Apparently you have mistaken the phase or stage where the "mind," is fused with the Witness Self. This stage (suggested in the stages of Zen as ox-herding pictures) is "Ox Forgotten, Self Alone." Here consciousness has transcended the body-mind attachment, devoid of objects, except itself. Attention is utterly withdrawn from the world...appearing as "nothingness." All "form" is intrusion. This appear to be where you, Chitra, are stuck.
You have yet to realize the Great Death, Total Void and resurrection of True Consciousness, yet to Know the Original Clown, the ordinary Perfect Clown, without identification, abiding in all things, yet unbounded by them, "nothing is not Me to which I am not bound. Void equals Form (beyond the nothing" where you appear stuck. And this is not an "insult," just an observation, and forgive me if we are only bantering and misunderstanding with words, involving very Subtle issues.
chitra:i have no idea about oxes and i dont consider the Self or God as clownlike...from our conversation you cant tell whether i'm stuck somewhere or not...how presumptuous of you..my point of view is that to actually see Atman in its immaculate pristine original state..(with its original face) all phenomena including the void has to dissolve, if even for a moment...maybe you know that state maybe you dont..i dont care to discuss the everything and the void. its not the important point..as far as i'm concerned.....
Thoughts, feelings etc. are like pictures on the wall of Atma. Their presence and absence must both vanish, if you want to see the background Atma in its Reality...from notes on spiritual discourse shri atmananda
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